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Jay Cutler retires

#201 User is offline   Champaign Transplant 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:57 PM

View Posthowsoonisnow?, on 15 August 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

Hey, like I said, it's up to you.

The lesser-of-two evils voting "liberal" who can't wrap his head around demonstrable truth. You are #$%&@!ing us all. I hold you and yours responsible. #$%&@!ing cowards the lot of you.


You might be surprised by what I can wrap my head around. People who were too good and pure to participate in the existing process might as well have donated to the Trump campaign. Opposing both the process and the results isn't particularly useful.

Let me tell you what happens when you sit through the National Anthem: People don't think, "Look at that brave iconoclast! I'm inspired now to bring down the two-party system!" They look at you and think, "What an a**hole," and the existing political structure continues, completely unimpeded. And the worst elements within the structure continue to benefit from your lack of participation.

You hold me responsible for a political system that predates me by hundreds of years, because I voted for the lesser of two evils? What the hell was gained by you helping the greater of two evils?
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#202 User is offline   howsoonisnow? 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:10 PM

View PostJudgeJudy, on 15 August 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

A lot of contradictions in your posts. That doesn't mean I agree with CT either though. So the two-party system we currently have is F'ed up I will agree. While you then say that CT is the opposition AND the problem by voting for Bernie or some third-party candidate?!..... by not voting for them, he's fully supporting the two-party, shove two shytty options in your face kleptocracy we've had for the last 50 or so years. Shouldn't you vote for who you believe is the best candidate, regardless of what side of the isle they're on?! I mean that'd be the best way to break the two-party system.... :hmm/>/>/>/>


Belief in voting as the vehicle for real change is the problem. That it somehow has a hope of bring about change given our current circumstances. And counseling others that that is the best option is tantamount to treasonous behavior IMO.

If you want to take the 30 minutes out of your day to go and vote because you want to send a signal that you support "democracy," fine. Vote exclusively for anti-establishment 3rd party candidates. And tell everyone else why you are making that choice. Don't cave and piss down your leg when Bernie gets shoved aside and then sells-out and begs everyone to support Clinton. That's what the two party system does to good people - it marginalizes them and then co-opts them. Don't support that no matter how many "smart" people that got us into this fix in the first place tell you you have to now support the lesser-of-two-evils.

If you don't care to vote that's fine too because it doesn't matter right now. In fact, what if no one voted? What signal would that send. Read about Managed Democracy. The powers that be would piss themselves if everyone stopped participating in their rigged system. They want people to vote and think that is accomplishing something. Because as long as that is where the citizenry is placing its effort then they know their power is safe. That doesn't scare them in the least. They control that. What does scare the #$%&@! out of them is people not accepting their rigged system anymore. Occupy Wall Street scared the piss out of the establishment. The corporate media had to absolutely scramble to figure out ways to denounce, vilify and marginalize them.

CT is just more of the historical white moderate that MLK had to deal with. (read letter from a Birmingham jail a few times).

Edit to add:

To be clear about "opposition" - CT and those who think (and I use the term loosely) as he does are the opposition to any real positive change. He is the opposition to those of us who actually realize the only way to get it at this point. He didn't vote for Bernie. He voted for Clinton. He didn't vote for Nadar. He voted for Gore. He votes for the establishment that #$%&@!s us and then has the nerve to try to lay blame elsewhere and flat deny (out of pants-pissing fear is my guess) that civil disobedience and direct action are mechanisms for positive change. MLK Jr. would have words for him.
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#203 User is offline   Champaign Transplant 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:20 PM

View Posthowsoonisnow?, on 15 August 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Belief in voting as the vehicle for real change is the problem. That it somehow has a hope of bring about change given our current circumstances. And counseling others that that is the best option is tantamount to treasonous behavior IMO.

If you want to take the 30 minutes out of your day to go and vote because you want to send a signal that you support "democracy," fine. Vote exclusively for anti-establishment 3rd party candidates. And tell everyone else why you are making that choice. Don't cave and piss down your leg when Bernie gets shoved aside and then sells-out and begs everyone to support Clinton. That's what the two party system does to good people it marginalizes them and the co-opts them. Don't support that no matter how many "smart" people that got us into this fix in the first place tell you you have to now support the lesser-of-two-evils.

If you don't care to vote that's fine too because it doesn't matter right now. In fact, what if no one voted? What signal would that send. Read about Managed Democracy. The powers that be would piss themselves if everyone stopped participating in their rigged system. They want people to vote and think that is accomplishing something. Because as long as that is where the citizenry is placing its effort then they know their power is safe. That doesn't scare them in the least. They control that. What does scare the #$%&@! out of them is people not accepting their rigged system anymore. Occupy Wall Street scared the piss out of the establishment. The corporate media had to absolutely scramble to figure out ways to denounce, vilify and marginalize them.

CT is just more of the historical white moderate that MLK had to deal with. (read letter from a Birmingham jail a few times).


I'm white? I may not be black, but I've never once been mistaken for white.

Look, I actually agree with a fair amount of what you say, but what is your perceived mechanism for the change you claim you want to see? How has Occupy Wall Street weakened the political influence of Wall Street? Scaring "the piss out of the establishment"? A child's goal.

And how is supporting the lesser of two evils not a worthy cause, when the alternative is to empower the greater evil?
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#204 User is offline   JudgeJudy 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:28 PM

 howsoonisnow?, on 15 August 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Belief in voting as the vehicle for real change is the problem. That it somehow has a hope of bring about change given our current circumstances. And counseling others that that is the best option is tantamount to treasonous behavior IMO.

If you want to take the 30 minutes out of your day to go and vote because you want to send a signal that you support "democracy," fine. Vote exclusively for anti-establishment 3rd party candidates. And tell everyone else why you are making that choice. Don't cave and piss down your leg when Bernie gets shoved aside and then sells-out and begs everyone to support Clinton. That's what the two party system does to good people it marginalizes them and the co-opts them. Don't support that no matter how many "smart" people that got us into this fix in the first place tell you you have to now support the lesser-of-two-evils.

If you don't care to vote that's fine too because it doesn't matter right now. In fact, what if no one voted? What signal would that send. Read about Managed Democracy. The powers that be would piss themselves if everyone stopped participating in their rigged system. They want people to vote and think that is accomplishing something. Because as long as that is where the citizenry is placing its effort then they know their power is safe. That doesn't scare them in the least. They control that. What does scare the #$%&@! out of them is people not accepting their rigged system anymore. Occupy Wall Street scared the piss out of the establishment. The corporate media had to absolutely scramble to figure out ways to denounce, vilify and marginalize them.

CT is just more of the historical white moderate that MLK had to deal with. (read letter from a Birmingham jail a few times).


I agree that me voting doesn't actually matter (for me in IL anyways), along with anyone voting third-party. My vote doesn't actually matter and as you stated or gets "marginalized" when "our" candidate has to drop out and fully support the other candidate, in their "same party," that they were just bashing a day before.

Your proposal about everyone not voting could be said for numerous things, but isn't realistic and never going to happen. That would elicit change, and quickly I might add, if everyone actually participated. Gas prices too high?, nobody buy gas! Don't like practices of Walmart, Chick Fil-A, Jimmy Johns, etc...?, stop going there! The only problem is, is people just use it as lip service and don't actually participate.
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#205 User is offline   Champaign Transplant 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:42 PM

View PostJudgeJudy, on 15 August 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

I agree that me voting doesn't actually matter (for me in IL anyways), along with anyone voting third-party. My vote doesn't actually matter and as you stated or gets "marginalized" when "our" candidate has to drop out and fully support the other candidate, in their "same party," that they were just bashing a day before.

Your proposal about everyone not voting could be said for numerous things, but isn't realistic and never going to happen. That would elicit change, and quickly I might add, if everyone actually participated. Gas prices too high?, nobody buy gas! Don't like practices of Walmart, Chick Fil-A, Jimmy Johns, etc...?, stop going there! The only problem is, is people just use it as lip service and don't actually participate.

Worse yet, if you hate Jimmy Johns, but Potbelly is worse, then convincing everyone to stop going to Jimmy Johns only helps Potbelly. Trying to convince the people you most agree with not to participate hands the keys to the people you least agree with. And, I can say with absolute certainty that the people you least agree with aren't going to boycott the process when you ask them to.
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#206 User is online   IlliniVette 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:56 PM

Make your own d@mn sammiches ya lazy bums. :lol:
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#207 User is offline   howsoonisnow? 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 03:35 PM

View PostChampaign Transplant, on 15 August 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

I'm white? I may not be black, but I've never once been mistaken for white.


Have you ever read the letter? You're the white moderate in MLKs letter. It doesn't matter what color your skin is. He was referring to actual white people then, sure. You fit the bill now though.

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"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."


Quote

First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the so-called "liberal." I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the average American's great stumbling block in the stride toward a fundamental lasting positive change is not the Alt-Right or the Republican party, but the so-called "liberal" who is more devoted to "order" and "incremental change" than to justice and real change; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for other people's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the average American to participate in an obviously rigged system which has no hope of bring about needed change.


Quote

Look, I actually agree with a fair amount of what you say, but what is your perceived mechanism for the change you claim you want to see? How has Occupy Wall Street weakened the political influence of Wall Street? Scaring "the piss out of the establishment"? A child's goal.



Yeah, you're the white moderate. How does that feel to know that one of the greatest real leaders in the history of this great country would find you and your approach disheartening and pathetic at best? You think MKL Jr. would be advocating for voting being the way average Americans today should focus their time and energy? You'd respond to that letter of his by calling him a child.
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#208 User is offline   Champaign Transplant 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 03:57 PM

View Posthowsoonisnow?, on 15 August 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Have you ever read the letter? You're the white moderate in MLKs letter. It doesn't matter what color your skin is. He was referring to actual white people then, sure. You fit the bill now though.








Yeah, you're the white moderate. How does that feel to know that one of the greatest real leaders in the history of this great country would find you and your approach disheartening and pathetic at best? You think MKL Jr. would be advocating for voting being the way average Americans today should focus their time and energy? You'd respond to that letter of his by calling him a child.


Yes. because calling you a child is the same as calling Dr. King a child.

Try being less childish.
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#209 User is offline   Breal31 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 08:09 PM

This is a great undercard fight .....
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#210 User is offline   howsoonisnow? 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 09:28 PM

View PostChampaign Transplant, on 15 August 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

Yes. because calling you a child is the same as calling Dr. King a child.

Try being less childish.


Yeah, bristle up and double down. You hang yourself with your own words. I don't have to do a thing.
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#211 User is offline   Champaign Transplant 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 09:53 PM

 howsoonisnow?, on 15 August 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

Yeah, bristle up and double down. You hang yourself with your own words. I don't have to do a thing.

I hung myself with my own words? What?

Stick to doing what' you do best-announcing with authority what MLK would think if he were reading this message board. Which is, presumably, what he'd be doing if he were still alive.

Jesus.
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#212 User is online   IlliniVette 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 10:24 PM

 Champaign Transplant, on 15 August 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

Jesus.

He'd be reading message boards too
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#213 User is offline   JimRomeisBurning 

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 11:47 PM

Illini Clones: With the length of these posts spouting takes of dubious distinction, I do not think you can complain about the size of my pic anymore. My vines are much more succinct and lucid.

Rack me! This thread is making me sleepy! I'm out!
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#214 User is offline   MiniDitka 

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:23 PM

View PostChampaign Transplant, on 15 August 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

I swear to God, if I have to vote in one more presidential election after which Democratic leaders seem surprised at how the electoral college works, I'm going to switch parties out of fvcking embarrassment.

:lol:

Seriously, Hillary's campaign was so poorly run that it's almost not believable that she was actually trying to win.
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#215 User is online   IlliniVette 

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:46 PM

 MiniDitka, on 16 August 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

:lol:/>

Seriously, Hillary's campaign was so poorly run that it's almost not believable that she was actually trying to win.

One candidate ran a campaign so poorly it was hard to believe she was trying to win (I think she believed she had it in the bag when she saw her opponent). The other candidate ran a campaign that appeared to legitimately be trying to lose. Trump kept pushing the envelope, saying more and more terrible things (about the disabled, about women, about minorities, etc), hell he even said he could stand on 5th avenue and shoot someone in the head and people would still support him, I actually thought at that moment he was in disbelief about how well he was doing. It was a publicity stunt that he lost control of.
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